TMA S1 relisten
Jan. 18th, 2020 10:11 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
kindkitI've only relistened through episode 18, "The Man Upstairs," but discussion and comments will include major spoilers through the end of S4.
Of course I'm struck by how cruel Jon is about Martin. He's not wrong to doubt Martin's competence in some areas (like Latin), but really, Jon? Really? Sending him off on the scariest bits of research, like going to find Angela from "Piecemeal," and then laughingly claiming that you don't really want to get him killed? I hope you feel terrible about that now. (He does. Of course he does.)
Jon's opinions of Martin vs. the Martin we actually will meet in episode 22, who survives a very bad situation and is far from a fool, is an interesting storytelling choice. It tells us a lot about Jon himself (namely, do not trust his opinions of people), but also a lot about how the story is going to build little by little, one person's partial viewpoint at a time. Nobody knows as much of the truth as they think they do, and their limited understandings cause them to make huge mistakes.
(I'm hoping this will turn out to be true of Elias as well. He is, after all, an avatar of a single Entity; Jon, who has been marked by fourteen, may in the end be able to see clearer.)
Returning to Martin (as you do), I want to know how he ever got hired and how he kept the job afterwards, because lying on your CV will only get you so far. Especially if you don't have either the smooth, plausible personality to bullshit your way through, which Martin doesn't, or the class privilege to get away with it, Boris Johnson style (or original!Elias style), which Martin also doesn't. He clearly learned to function in the job, to some extent; he's able to find out people's current addresses and things like that, but it would be blatantly obvious to anyone paying attention that he doesn't have the academic training he claimed. I'm assuming Elias made Martin one of Jon's assistants specifically to slow Jon down and prevent him from working too much out too soon.
I started writing a little fic about it, and it made perfect sense, but then I had a closer look at the timeline and it won't work. (My second line of explanation is that the Institute's reputation is so bad that it's actually a haven for semi-incompetent misfits, and thus camouflaged, Martin went unnoticed.)
. . . now that I think about it, I'm also trying to figure out how Jon didn't know Martin before becoming Head Archivist, when Jon had worked in research for several years before then, and that's presumably where Martin was also. I suppose they could have known each other, but Jon just successfully avoided Martin most of the time. (I'd be tempted to think Martin actually started out as the tea boy, but not with that fake MA in parapsychology.)
Argh, I hate having to think this hard about tiny little plot details, but that's what happens when you start to write fic.
Hoping I can repurpose the bit where Elias tests Martin's Latin. Because I think it's hilarious.
Of course I'm struck by how cruel Jon is about Martin. He's not wrong to doubt Martin's competence in some areas (like Latin), but really, Jon? Really? Sending him off on the scariest bits of research, like going to find Angela from "Piecemeal," and then laughingly claiming that you don't really want to get him killed? I hope you feel terrible about that now. (He does. Of course he does.)
Jon's opinions of Martin vs. the Martin we actually will meet in episode 22, who survives a very bad situation and is far from a fool, is an interesting storytelling choice. It tells us a lot about Jon himself (namely, do not trust his opinions of people), but also a lot about how the story is going to build little by little, one person's partial viewpoint at a time. Nobody knows as much of the truth as they think they do, and their limited understandings cause them to make huge mistakes.
(I'm hoping this will turn out to be true of Elias as well. He is, after all, an avatar of a single Entity; Jon, who has been marked by fourteen, may in the end be able to see clearer.)
Returning to Martin (as you do), I want to know how he ever got hired and how he kept the job afterwards, because lying on your CV will only get you so far. Especially if you don't have either the smooth, plausible personality to bullshit your way through, which Martin doesn't, or the class privilege to get away with it, Boris Johnson style (or original!Elias style), which Martin also doesn't. He clearly learned to function in the job, to some extent; he's able to find out people's current addresses and things like that, but it would be blatantly obvious to anyone paying attention that he doesn't have the academic training he claimed. I'm assuming Elias made Martin one of Jon's assistants specifically to slow Jon down and prevent him from working too much out too soon.
I started writing a little fic about it, and it made perfect sense, but then I had a closer look at the timeline and it won't work. (My second line of explanation is that the Institute's reputation is so bad that it's actually a haven for semi-incompetent misfits, and thus camouflaged, Martin went unnoticed.)
. . . now that I think about it, I'm also trying to figure out how Jon didn't know Martin before becoming Head Archivist, when Jon had worked in research for several years before then, and that's presumably where Martin was also. I suppose they could have known each other, but Jon just successfully avoided Martin most of the time. (I'd be tempted to think Martin actually started out as the tea boy, but not with that fake MA in parapsychology.)
Argh, I hate having to think this hard about tiny little plot details, but that's what happens when you start to write fic.
Hoping I can repurpose the bit where Elias tests Martin's Latin. Because I think it's hilarious.
no subject
Date: 2020-01-19 08:02 am (UTC)I'm sure he does. Though to be fair, there's no indication that Angela is any danger to people she hasn't been hired to hurt. And of course we see how Jon reacts later when it comes to danger to Martin which he thinks is real.
Returning to Martin (as you do), I want to know how he ever got hired and how he kept the job afterwards, because lying on your CV will only get you so far
I assume that Elias met him, saw through him and his CV like a pane of glass (when Martin tries to stop Melanie from being hired, he drops a vicious line about how "Formal qualifications aren't everything, Martin", so it's clear he's known all along), went "Oh, you're going to be fun and useful", and hired him immediately.
Elias gives no fucks about actual academic research being done, but someone who's smart and inventive with a massive psychological wound and pre-existing vulnerability to the Lonely (and no-one who'd miss him if he vanished)? Very handy pawn to have around.
(And I can imagine him being amused by Martin's chutzpah.)
Especially if you don't have either the smooth, plausible personality to bullshit your way through, which Martin doesn't
Not in the obvious way, maybe, but look at the way he successfully plays Peter in S4. Or Elias at the end of S3; even if we assume with hindsight that Elias saw through it, it's still a very impressive (and terrifyingly brave) bit of manipulation.
And I think it's all the more effective because Martin doesn't remotely seem like the kind of smooth, confident person who could be (for example) lying about their entire CV.
(It has been noted that people who grown up in emotionally abusive family situations often get very good at lying, managing the emotions of those around them, and hiding aspects of themselves in self-protection.)
but it would be blatantly obvious to anyone paying attention that he doesn't have the academic training he claimed.
On the other hand, Sasha says (in ep 26, I think) that Martin's a "great researcher", so he's managed to pick up a lot. And he's clearly very bright.
(Jon has noticed some of the specific gaps, like lack of Latin proficiency, but is feeding it into his "Martin is an incompetent lazy idiot" schema.)
. . . now that I think about it, I'm also trying to figure out how Jon didn't know Martin before becoming Head Archivist, when Jon had worked in research for several years before then, and that's presumably where Martin was also.
Apparently there's a mention somewhere (possibly in the liveshow or somewhere else quasi-canonical?) of Martin having worked in the library.
no subject
Date: 2020-01-19 12:12 pm (UTC)I think most of the work the assistants do can be done by anyone who knows how to read and make phone calls.
no subject
Date: 2020-01-20 04:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-01-19 04:16 pm (UTC)Of course he reckoned without Martin's secret superpower, which is chatting with old ladies. My headcanon is that he did find the right Angela; she just blurred his memory of it afterwards because she liked him. And she gave him good tea out of a clean cup, because the instant coffee and dusty mugs are reserved for people like Lee Rentoul.
I assume that Elias met him
Elias has to have been involved somehow, although it's weird to imagine the director of the Institute interviewing candidates for every junior position. But then again, that makes sense when one considers the actual purpose of the Institute as opposed to its official purpose. One of the things I'm trying to make sense of is how the Institute actually functions as a workplace, because it must have a veneer of normality.
I had briefly imagined Elias hiring Martin specifically to frustrate Gertrude once she began to be an irritation, but (a) Martin was apparently hired ca. 2009, far too soon, and (b) Gertrude's assistants end up dead.
Not in the obvious way, maybe, but look at the way he successfully plays Peter in S4. Or Elias at the end of S3
Hmmm, yes, I see your point, and of course Elias does call him a manipulator. But Martin lies to people by seeming less competent or aware than he actually is, so they assume he can't have an agenda. I don't think we've ever seen him do the opposite kind of manipulation. My sense, too, is that his self-confidence grows a lot over the course of the show, starting with getting away from Jane Prentiss.
*shrugs* Clearly, he was confident or desperate enough to try lying his way into a job, so who knows? I agree that his lies must have been utterly transparent, so it probably was just a matter of Elias amusing himself and also scenting possibilities.
Must go to work now, but more later.
no subject
Date: 2020-01-20 04:55 am (UTC)I've relistened to episode 22 since I posted, and with your comment in mind, I noticed that Martin lies quickly, effectively, and repeatedly to the landlord of that building. So maybe he's better at lying than I would have expected, and it's when he's being honest that he's so awkward. *hugs him*
his "Martin is an incompetent lazy idiot" schema
I do wonder why Jon takes against him so much. Probably it has a lot to do with the way Jon at this point is using intellectual detachment as a shield (as he has from childhood). Martin's lack of skepticism must irritate him, plus if Martin has just become a researcher he's doubtless made a lot of mistakes/needed a lot of guidance.
I can also picture Martin trying hard to be nice, because that's what he does, and Jon, in a combination of his own personality plus new manager anxiety, feeling his boundaries crossed and hating it.
When I first listened to S1, I took Jon's opinions about Martin at face value, and even after this episode it took me a while to warm up to him. In fact it wasn't until I realized he had feelings for Jon that he became very interesting to me.
no subject
Date: 2020-01-20 04:03 pm (UTC)Yeah -- what I find very very easy to imagine is that the defence/coping mechanisms they've each built up collide in ways that Jon is going to react to like he's allergic.
Jon reacts to his childhood by deciding: well, people are going to find him weird and annoying anyway (and you can't rely on anyone for help or affection -- that's an eight-year-old who's sometimes being beaten up by an eighteen-year-old, without any adults in his life even noticing), but he's SMARTER than them, cope by being prickly and superior and high status.
(And he doubles down on it whenever he's scared.)
Whereas Martin goes for low-status, look I'm harmless, desperately seeking approval, please please let me please you. Which to Jon is going to read as the equivalent of wearing a sign saying HERE IS MY SOFT UNDERBELLY PLEASE KICK IT, because how could anyone do that, he must be STUPID and WEAK. And Martin's caretaking will feel intrusive and untrustworthy and threatening to Jon's sense of his own autonomy and competence, he doesn't need looking after, how dare.
(It is heartbreaking as well as hilarious in S2 that his train of thought is essentially "Martin is showing concern about my wellbeing and being nice to me -- SUSPICIOUS, he is probably PLOTTING AGAINST ME.")
And as we see in S1, Jon's very good at coming up with intellectual rationalizations for positions which he's adopted for irrational/emotional reasons, like his fake skepticism.
Once he's had that gut reaction of annoyance and suspicion, any small mistake on Martin's part can be taken as proof that Martin is useless and incompetent (and any competence on his part can be quietly ignored as barely adequate).
ETA: plus Jon's been dropped in at the deep end in a job which he's seriously unqualified for. Being able to go "Well, at least I'm not as useless as THAT GUY" is a coping mechanism.
no subject
Date: 2020-01-22 07:31 pm (UTC)Something I've noticed on re-listening is how insistent Jon is that the Institute is a scholarly organization. For scholars. Researchers. Not mere investigators. It makes me think that Jon actually wanted to be an academic, but that didn't work out and instead he had to take a job at this place that even people who run ghost-hunting YouTube channels think is kind of a joke. And now, as you said, he's found himself in a more respectable scholarly-sounding position within the joke institute, only the job isn't what it ought to be and even if it were he hasn't had the proper training. It's no surprise he's so defensive.
And then there's Martin, who doesn't even know Latin, but has been made an archival assistant, which is higher up on the org chart than researchers, and Jon was a researcher himself until two seconds ago . . . yeah.
And meanwhile Martin's thinking: "I just want to help. Why is he like this?" (Followed shortly, and not inaccurately even though it does spring directly from Martin's own issues, by: "He must be so lonely and unhappy. Poor Jon.")
Which does raise the interesting question of whether, if Jon had behaved in a professional-but-friendly way towards Martin instead of subjecting him to the same sort of emotional abuse Martin had known from childhood, Martin would ever have fallen in love with him.
no subject
Date: 2020-01-23 05:09 pm (UTC)YUP. It's an unpleasant question to have to consider, but yeah: Martin is absolutely primed to fall into caretaking and trying to please someone who treats him with disdain and apparently resents everything he does.
I am amused by: https://rendherring.tumblr.com/post/190371737548/elias-looking-up-at-martin-as-he-reads-his-cv
On the other hand: I feel like S1 Martin desperately wants Jon's approval (see ep 22 etc.), but he also pushes back at him, most obviously calling him on his fake scepticism in 39, but also in a lot of smaller ways. A friend who's currently listening picked up on his telling Jon "Look, you need to get some sleep" in 37, commenting that it's the first time someone shows concern for Jon's wellbeing -- and it's also quite a bold thing to say to your boss (especially your boss who treats you with disdain etc.).
And we don't get indications that he's started falling hard for Jon (beyond "a crush" level) until he's seen Jon being vulnerable and awkwardly protective as well as an arsehole.
So it's not all recapitulating old patterns.
And then of course contrary to all expectations, it turns out he's fallen for someone who not only falls for him in return, but who is also learning so awkwardly and determinedly to be kind.
no subject
Date: 2020-01-24 04:14 am (UTC)Interesting how unreliable memories are--I haven't relistened to that one yet and I had remembered that as being Tim, not Martin. (When I first listened, I don't think Martin had really caught my attention as a distinct character yet.)
until he's seen Jon being vulnerable and awkwardly protective as well as an arsehole
*nods* I think Martin probably sensed pretty early on that the vulnerability and old trauma were there, and that drew him to Jon. It's not that he's hopelessly attracted to anyone who's horrible to him. On the bad side, it means he does sometimes make excuses for Jon; on the good side, it means that, as you point out, he's able to push back in a constructive way because (unlike, say, Tim) he realizes there's more going on than just Jon being a prick for no reason.
no subject
Date: 2020-01-24 09:40 am (UTC)Right, yeah; it's the first time we see Martin snap at someone, even if it's in "annoyed and baffled" mode rather than properly mean.
(And Jon immediately crumbles and admits what he's actually thinking/feeling.)
And that's after his "HAH" when Jon concedes that the climate-controlled room is a good hiding place, and prior to him mocking the shit out of Jon for thinking he might be a ghost. It's a good ep for Martin. *g*
Good commentary on this and Jon's "type":
https://agnesmontague.tumblr.com/post/188907857190/i-just-realized-that-this-is-just-further-proof
no subject
Date: 2020-01-26 04:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-01-19 11:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-01-20 04:41 am (UTC)