good and bad

[kindkit]

The bad: I work in a grocery store and I'm tired. And I want to punch every customer I see buying 10 cans of tuna and 20 cans of beans, or wearing goddamn gloves and then coughing into their hand in the checkout line, or who complains that we're out of stock of something or that we have new temporary policies like "no reusable containers."

I also am being constantly misgendered by customers and it's making me tired and furious and very, very depressed. The worst part is that I don't think they're doing it on purpose; that's why it's such a kick in the self-esteem. I literally do not know how I could present more masculine short of actually shaving my head, but I still get "ma'am" ALL THE FUCKING TIME. I'm binding, I'm in men's clothes as I have been for years, my hair is short and in a masculine cut, I wear no makeup or jewelry, and none of it does any goddamn good. Today, exhausted and stressed, I had to leave the sales floor and sit and cry a little. I wish this fucking testosterone would start having some visible fucking effects.

Dear cis people: you do not need to use gendered honorifics. It's usually pretty easy to avoid them! In particular, you do not need to use them on people who are clearly not presenting as the gender you have decided they are. Just stop. Stop. Stop.


The good: Not sick. Not unemployed.

Have acquired all the Mechanisms albums from Bandcamp. Last night I listened to their earliest one, Once Upon a Time . . . In Space, and enjoyed it. It's like the Decemberists at their most folksy/weird, only more so. I have a feeling I may like the later albums better, as OUaTIS feels very much like the work of a group finding its feet, but it was still full of Tragic Fun.

It's weird to hear Jonny sing. I know Jonny isn't Jon, of course, but it's still weird. Jon, I suspect, does not sing, even though his voice would be pretty good if he tried.


Okay, signing off now as my dinner is ready.

Comments

misgendering

[dialecticdreamer]

I am a cis person who gets misgendered all the FREAKING time. I got SIR starting in my twenties, and I have NEVER tried to present as masculine. I avoid pink, purple, flowers, and ruffles, but I do not consider myself any less 'feminine' for that. Yet, I have to deal with "Excuse me, sir," nearly every time I go shopping. I also loathe bus rides and standing in large groups, because both make it almost guaranteed that I'll have to deal with this at least once per trip.

Some.

People.

Are.

Just.

Clueless.

Frankly, if you're in a position to say, "Oh, I thought that you were talking to someone else beacause ClEARLY, I am not a 'ma'am'," I'd do it until your coworkers start speaking up for you, long before you have to deal with it.

In the meantime, I've had to make up a genderless honorific for a sci fi story I'm writing, and what I've figured out is that it's a programmed language pause. We need to fill it with something very similar in length and usage, but no one has made much headway with it other than "Yes, Chef," and "Yes, Boss," and neither applies because of the particular connotation of respect that goes with a social interaction in a retail store or restaurant (front).

Re: misgendering

[lilacsigil]

I don't know, I don't use honorifics in conversation that way (because I dislike them) and I don't feel the lack of a pause. I go with something like, "Yes, I can help you," or "Yes, it's over here," or I use their name. Though it's very casual where I live and even the doctors are on a first-name basis.

Re: misgendering

[dialecticdreamer]

That's a good point. Culturally, I'm from the South, where kids seem to be taught "sir" and "ma'am" shortly after "Mama" and "Dada." (Exaggerating, yes, but it is a VERY deeply ingrained social construct.) There are always other ways of doing things, and I like your crisp yes plus information. It should work over the phone just as well.

Re: misgendering

[lilacsigil]

I don't think I've ever called anybody Sir or Ma'am in my entire life! I have heard it (mostly in customer service contexts) but I feel very uncomfortable when it's used on me, probably because I mostly hear it when someone is trying to scam you over the phone.

Re: misgendering

[kindkit]

I didn't used to, but then I spent some time living in a majority-black US city and teaching at a historically-black university. The university was very formal--professors used "Dr. Lastname" to each other, which I've never encountered in any other college or university setting--in large part, I think, as a response to a history of US racism in which black people were systematically denied courtesy titles (even "Mr./Mrs./Miss") and called by their first names, or worse, by white strangers. As a white person, I particularly wanted to show respect, so I started also using "Sir" and "Ma'am" to people in general. And then later, when I ended up working retail, the habit came in useful and stuck.

So I don't object to honorifics and titles as such, I just wish English had a neutral, non-gendered respectful address for strangers.

Re: misgendering

[kindkit]

Frankly, if you're in a position to say, "Oh, I thought that you were talking to someone else beacause ClEARLY, I am not a 'ma'am'," I'd do it until your coworkers start speaking up for you, long before you have to deal with it.

The problem is, it's evidently not clear. That was what I meant by it being more depressing because people aren't doing it on purpose. I can't get angry like I would if they were being horrible. It just makes me feel bad about myself, that I don't "pass." (I realize that feeling bad about myself is not a rational response--not passing is not my fault!--but it's how I feel.)

I'm sorry that you get misgendered. It's a miserable experience.

Re: misgendering

[dialecticdreamer]

It's not intentional, but yeah, exhausting is a good word for it.

[sovay]

It's like the Decemberists at their most folksy/weird, only more so.

I really enjoyed the far-future Norse retelling of The Bifrost Incident (2017).

I am sorry people don't know a better way of interacting without assumptions.

[kindkit]

Huh, that makes me want to skip ahead and listen to Bifrost. I started Ulysses Dies At Dawn last night, but although I found the story premise interesting, I wasn't loving the musical style, which is very bluesy/blues-rock-y.

[sovay]

but although I found the story premise interesting, I wasn't loving the musical style, which is very bluesy/blues-rock-y.

I've never listened to any of their other albums, so the folk-rock style may be the same, but a lot of Bifrost is hard-boiled narration, which I enjoyed.

[kindkit]

I've listened to some more of Ullysses, and it turns out the blues-rock is pretty much just for Ulysses' own songs, so that's helping. I'm looking forward to Bifrost!

[vilakins]

I loathe gendered honorifics. I want to snap at people that no woman under 100 likes being called ma'am. I blame you Americans for this imported insult; we never used it before. Now service staff seem to be trained to use it. When it first started I used to say I didn't run a brothel but that was met with incomprehension, and now it's a losing battle. I also no longer get away with being misgendered, dammit, not since I grew boobs in my mid 20s.

Of course anything female-related devolves into an insult.

I have to say, I'm hugely relieved that English is pretty free of gender crap. I used verbs in Germany to get round the special nouns that indicated I was female (I program vs I am a programmer) because I hate them with a fiery passion. English speaker who use -ess mouns, fuck off. I can only imagine how hard it is in say Spanish to be transgender.

Anyway, stay safe! We have idiots panic-buying here but so far I think they're relatively civilised in this town. I've heard of fights and tasering in Australia (but only inter-hoarder)!

[kindkit]

Yeah, English has relatively few explicitly gendered words compared to a lot of other languages. And that -in suffix in German is really annoying. French, at the time I was using it a lot (which is 30 years ago now) was already moving towards de-gendering profession nouns, but a lot of gendered stuff is baked into the grammar. I know some Spanish speakers have created gender-neutral word endings (e.g. Latinx rather than Latino/Latina), but I'm not sure how common that is or whether it's used at all outside of the United States.

[vilakins]

Yes, Spanish is pretty bad (I'm learning it as I have several South American immigrant friends here) in that as soon as you use an adjective, you have to pick a gender. Also, Duolingo, which I'm using now in-person classes have finished, keeps pissing me off with its senora / senorita. I thought that crap was disappearing from a lot of languages like German and French, or indeed already has.

[radiantfracture]

That's a lot. Thank you for doing this hard job that has suddenly become bizarrely harder, and thanks for presenting as yourself in the world.

Will try out the Mechanisms.

[kindkit]

Thanks--it has been very, very tiring.

Hope you enjoy the Mechanisms.

[lilacsigil]

I feel you on the customer punching. Most people have been fine, if confused and worried, but then there's those special few. And stop sneaking up behind me, people! Maintain your distance!

[glinda]

Urgh. People are rubbish. I'm sorry you're having to deal with both those things at once.


Once Upon a Time in Space! :D :D :D It's my favourite of their albums. I really need to get round to listening to TMA so many folks I know are into it.

[mllesatine]

I'm sorry that the misgendering happens, especially since it's really not necessary to even use those honorifics. I blame the English language for not having a formal/informal pronoun and therefore relying on honorifics.

[silveradept]

Blergh. If only people would change their speech patterns so as to not rely on gendered assumptions.

[tree_and_leaf]

Stay safe - and I'm sorry about the misgendering.

[magnetic_pole]

Sorry to hear work has been so difficult. Everyone working in a public-facing position right now should be getting hazard pay.

And I'm so sorry to hear about the repeated misgendering. M.

[kindkit]

We're trying to get the co-op to cough up some extra pay for us (I mean, even Target is doing it!), but no results so far.

I'm trying to be grateful that I still have a job, since most non-grocery retail is now closed in my state. But we still deserve extra pay.

[magnetic_pole]

Fingers crossed. I think a lot of companies/organizations are moving slowly, not really realizing what's going on as it happens. (Mine just made a job offer, which is mind-bogglingly...not forward looking.) They may yet come around.

I didn't know you worked at a coop, by the way. Is it different from working for a typical corporation? I've only worked retailed for huge corporations, but perhaps I have a romanticized idea about coops...M.