rage

[kindkit]

If any of you who have me friended agree with this secret from today's fandomsecrets, would you please defriend/unsubscribe me now?

Especially if I have you friended/subscribed/granted access back.

I don't want to associate with people who think I'm a liar who's just pretending to be trans in order to get male privilege.



(No, I haven't resumed reading fandomsecrets. But I saw this linked to, and foolishly followed the link, and now I am simultaneously enraged and horrified at the possibility that the OP, or one of the agreeing commenters, could be someone I know.)


ETA: My head aches and I'm tired, so I'm going to crawl into bed with a book. I mention this so you know why I won't be answering comments for the next 12 hours--it's not that I don't appreciate your support and general coolness.

Comments

[ellen_fremedon]

That's horrible. That's rage-inducingly horrible. I really hope that's not a friend of mine.

[kindkit]

Yeah, the thought of someone pretending to be nice while secretly holding opinions like that is upsetting.

[brewsternorth]

That is unbelievably horrible. (And particularly odious that the secret-writer then goes on to spew out the "my best friends are..." gambit.)

I sincerely hope that's nobody with any connection to my f'list. Considering the general persuasions of my flist, I doubt it, but even so...

[kindkit]

Considering the general persuasions of my flist, I doubt it

In my case too. But the thought that it could be someone I know distantly--someone who reads and occasionally comments on my fic, for example--was upsetting.

[very_improbable]

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK. How does someone think that let alone say it. I can't even. Aaaagh.

[kindkit]

I could understand someone having that as a knee-jerk reaction (because there's definitely a strain in the culture-at-large of denying trans* people their identities, and we're all affected by cultural prejudices) IF they also realized they were wrong to think that and wanted to change. What's infuriating is that they seemed convinced they're right, and proud of it.

[bethbethbeth]

God, that's foul! And what's almost as bad is that now I'm thinking "is this person somebody on my f'list???"

[kindkit]

now I'm thinking "is this person somebody on my f'list???"

It's very suspicion-inducing and anxiety-inducing, which is horrible.

[lilacsigil]

Ugh, that keeps coming up on fandomsecrets every now and then, along with "fandom lesbians", though this is more offensive because it holds out the idea that there is a "right kind" of transman, and if you just jumped through all their hoops...

[dingsi]

[Warning: comment might be tldr; and I guess I'm also preaching to the choir here. But I hope both you and kindkit understand that sometimes one needs to get it off one's chest and it's so nice that I have an environment (via friends/Dwircle/flist) where I can say all this without feeling nervous or vulnerable.]

it holds out the idea that there is a "right kind" of transman, and if you just jumped through all their hoops...

The "right kind of trans*" thing is so... it's a wall-banger for me but sadly very pervasive. Most people even seem to have problems realising that, hey, access to hormones and surgery is MOSTLY OUT OF OUR HANDS. We could be the nicest, willingest, our-body-hatingest trans guys on earth but we still need to have a trans-friendly medical insurance, available therapists, money, time, mobility, other medical resources available, the goodwill of all the gatekeepers involved, and if/once all those boxes are checked we also need to be healthy enough to be ready for treatment (some trans people have allergies or chronic health conditions that prevent them from ever leaving the pre-hormones and pre-op stage).

Even in cases where they ARE aware of all this, then they usually remove their support when confronted with trans men who don't completely hate and detest their body every waking* minute, or who say they would like having biological kids, or who complain that having to have one's ovaries and uterus removed to be considered male (even though you cannot see them on the outside and they have stopped functioning due to testosterone) is violating their rights to bodily integrity. I've tried so many times to explain but it's like talking to a brick wall.

And what hurts the most is that this policing is coming not just from cis people, but from other trans folks, too.

* which reminds me: the "requirements" are so overwhelming and the trans narratives usually so narrow that I often felt guilty if I dreamed of myself in a female body instead of the male one I craved. They even police your SUBCONSCIOUS. How fucked-up is that.

[lilacsigil]

Policing your subconscious is thoroughly fucked up, and I hope that the next generation of trans* people get a chance to learn from the current generation's narratives and realise that there is more than one path. Not that that necessarily helps when medical and legal authorities are trying to push everyone into being just one, easily observable kind of trans* person!

I'm cisgendered, but a lot of the gatekeeper/not real rhetoric overlaps with language and power structures around illness and disability, so it's not necessarily unfamiliar to me.

[dingsi]

but a lot of the gatekeeper/not real rhetoric overlaps with language and power structures around illness and disability

My personal knowledge is limited, but I've noticed some similarities too. The infantilizing, for example ("you can't know what's good for you, WE do"). Or how people have to walk a tightrope between being ill enough to "deserve" treatment but not so ill that they can't jump through the hoops as required. And don't get me started on unwanted advice...

[kindkit]

As usual, I'm nodding along to everything you say.

I often felt guilty if I dreamed of myself in a female body instead of the male one I craved

So that's not just me, then? *laughs hollowly*

[dingsi]

... whew, I'm glad I'm not alone in this. Seriously, I read those blog posts and such where people said "but when I dreamt I was always [true gender]" and positioned that as a valid detail to suggest transness (because of the [false] assumption that your subconscious can never lie to you] and I felt like a failure. I used to beat myself up over it or feel doubtful and confused whenever I dreamt I was female without also hating it in my dreams.
Of course, I also dreamt of being male sometimes. Or flying. Or the apocalypse. *shrug*

[kindkit]

Or the apocalypse

Yeah, I have tons of dreams that are about my anxieties, not my desires. So the fact that right after I bought my first men's clothes, I had two different dreams about wearing dresses . . . that's not my subconscious telling me I'm not trans, that's fears working themselves out.

I am SO TIRED of the "I always knew" narrative. I mean, if that's someone's experience, great. Yay them! But it's so past time for that to stop being the normative kind of transness. I'd love to see people who are in a place of relative safety (not, for example, in danger of losing access to medical treatment if they don't tell the right story about their identity) talking openly about having gone through uncertainty and self-doubt.

[kindkit]

this is more offensive because it holds out the idea that there is a "right kind" of transman

I think the "fandom lesbians" fail does the same thing, though, because it assumes that there's some "real" way to be a lesbian, that "fandom lesbians" aren't doing it, and that they're just pretending in order to get some sort of thrill or privilege (because being a lesbian or trans* brings SO MANY PRIVILEGES--I personally like the restaurant discounts!).

[medie]

ugh, I hate people sometimes. Just...no. I'm sorry you had to see that kind of bullshit and I sincerely hope it's not somebody you have to deal with. (If they are, then I hope they take your advice and GTFO.)

[kindkit]

So far no one has defriended/unsubscribed, so hopefully it was someone I don't know. I feel bad for the LGBT people they do know, though.

[oursin]

That's horrible and creepy. And is all about that 'people who are not like me/in my demographic are just doing that thing to get attention/unearned advantages', which is a really completely unthought-through way of considering the matter (am reminded of The Person On List I Used to Run who claimed that various groups who were Not Their Particular Demographic were all running conspiracies to give one another jobs/places on postgrad courses/publish each others' work/various other benefits, and thus that being in various demographics which are, in fact, demonstrably the subject of prejudices of various kinds from hegemonic society was in fact an advantage - but that this did not apply to their particular demographic).

I'm so sorry you had to encounter that.

[kindkit]

all running conspiracies to give one another jobs/places on postgrad courses/publish each others' work/various other benefits

If only. It's astounding how common the idea that it's white and/or male and/or straight and/or cisgendered people who are Truly Oppressed has become.

[biichan]

Argh. Can't they figure out that some people can't afford to physically transition? It's not that hard!

[kindkit]

Or their health isn't good enough for it to be possible, or they've been denied it by the various gatekeeping forces, or they just don't feel they need the physical changes.

But, no, the OP is the arbiter of trans-ness and anyone who doesn't fit the OP's definition is a liar!

[doyle]

RAGE. Secret maker is clearly a chump of the first order, and I sincerely hope they're trolling.

[kindkit]

I hate trolls because they make online fandom so much less pleasant . . . but in this instance trolling would be preferable.

[dingsi]

I sincerely hope that the people who share this transphobic and hurtful sentiment also have the inner integrity and sensibility to really defriend you. Nobody deserves "friends" like that.

P.S. this might be tangential, but my experience regarding gay males in slash fandom is that usually they are only appreciated [i.e. treated in a privileged fashion, fawned over, etc.] IF they are 1. cis, 2. giving slash writers tips on how to write m/m sex "realistically", 3. support all slash writers unconditionally. Otherwise they're mostly being told to GTFO. Which is not to say that no gay man ever behaved badly and unfairly towards or inside of slash fandom -- the issue defies easy categories as to who's "good" or "bad" -- but even the privilege we have as males in fandom comes with a lot of caveats because it's actually reserved mainly for a certain type of males only.

[kindkit]

I agree. Male privilege is fairly limited in fandom (which is NOT a bad thing) and trans* men who are out as trans* don't get it anyway.

[starlady]

Holy hell, that is vile. I really hope that is not someone in either of our circles.

[tree_and_leaf]

Yuck. That's really horrid. Sorry you had to see that.

[the_rck]

What an appalling 'secret.' Basic human respect demands accepting people's self-identification as trans. The question of privilege seems specious to me-- That is, I doubt any privilege attaches to 'claiming' to be trans. Being out as trans, whether FtM or MtF, carries an immense burden. I don't know that I'd be brave enough.